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Cinco de Mayo
May 5, 2008 - 10:33am — Thomas L. Johnson
Hoy es el cinco de mayo e yo deseo empezar una discusion sobre una tema muy relevante: Americans and language. What does it tell us about ourselves that we are the most powerful country in the world and the most linguistically incompetent? At the time we went to war with Iraq, it was reported that there were only six people in the State Department who knew enough Arabic to go on Arab-speaking television. I talked to a group of people this morning and asked how many had taken two or more years of Spanish: almost all raised their hands. So I started asking some very simple Cinco de Mayo questions -- quickly one after the other admitted they retained nothing; their two years were totally gone. Not a trace remained. How tragic for them and for us as a nation. I meet tomorrow with a group of French educators -- they all will speak English because French educators speak English. As do educators and taxi drivers and pilots and store owners in virtually every corner of the world. When history is written -- as it is being day by day-- this empire will be considered as a great economic and military power that had no compelling reason to take the rest of the world seriously enough to learn enough language to have a conversation in anything but English. My rant on cinco de mayo. to be continued on syttende mai.
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Tlj-----once again we are at...
Back to page topTlj-----once again we are at odds. I took 2 yrs. of Spanish at FHS and have yet in my life have had to use it my travels and in my everyday living. How many languages does one have to know in this country to carry on a conversation or ask a question with all the immigrants that are in the United States in order to give them all a far shake so to speak? Too many I would say. When my grandparents came to this country they learned the English language and were proud of it. I guess I'm just not getting your point.
Sorry about the noise...
Back to page topSorry about the noise folks!! That was me dropping my peach crate/soap box down the steps into the basement!! I cannot believe it, but I find myself in about 90% agreement with TLJ on this one. But I must say that TLJ needs to realize that we are living in the Intendo generation, and that these things don't matter to this generation! I do, however, think that if people want to come into this country (legal or illegal), they should learn enough English that they can converse in our stores and public places with out every item needing "two" languages written on it!!!! I do believe that if I was to move to a non-English speaking country, I would learn enough of their native language to converse in a somewhat coherrant manner. In order to do business down here in this "red state" I have had to learn the GW Bush "street" Spanish, in order to conduct business with the contractors, etc. In fact, I think GW is learning a second language, "English"!! As for people learning and retaining second languages, I can look at my own daughter as a good example. She took French from 9th thru 12th and could speak it fluently, and even went to France for a time. But, now some 15 years later and several college degrees later, she can barely speak one sentence of French. What a waste!! But, I guess if you don't have a reason to use the language, then it will just slip away. But, if you live down where I do and don't learn basic spanish, you are way behind the eight ball. In fact, it is kind of fun to stand around some of the workers, and listen to them talk about ya, but the look on their face is priceless when they find out you know enough spanish to bust them!! Anyway, yesterday was a good day to learn how igorant some of our citizens are, when it comes to Cinco De Mayo. I would say that 90% of the responses I got, told me it was a celebration of Mexican independence! Not one person knew it was the celebration of one little battle that Mexico won, in the war that they eventually lost (TO FRANCE) of all people!! So, TLJ, don't wait until May 17th to rant again! As Michael Savage tells us, "borders, language, culture"!
I don't remember calculus...
Back to page topI don't remember calculus either, does that make me a bad American? The thing is if you don't use a learned skill you tend to loose it.
BTW I thought Cinco De Mayo is when Jose Cuervo drove the rats out of Ireland.
That's right, Jose' drove...
Back to page topThat's right, Jose' drove the rat's out and St Patrick drove the snakes out!! The trouble is that the rats had demon's and came to America and settled in Boston, Taxichusette's, and formed a political party called the "Demonrats"!! We are still suffering today! So what if an illegal immigrant came up to you in a convenience store and needed help with his math homework!! You wouldn't be able to help him, would you?? Shame on you! LOL.... I learned how to drink booze in the Navy, but don't do it much anymore, does that make me a bad sailor??
No, if you don't remember...
Back to page topNo, if you don't remember calculus, especially the kind with trigonometry thrown in, you are a good American, because the people of the nation of Mathematics don't expect you to speak their language. However, if you are assuming that calculus has anything to do with living languages, then you are tending towards Michael Savageelike goofballery.
The oldest joke in the world: "What do you call someone who speaks three languages?" Trilingual "Two languages" bilingual "One language?" That would be us. And we are crazy about travel, but we travel dumb, asking in our overloud voices:"Wha don't y'all spike English?" This is the Ugly American.
Then there's the guy I am proud to have as a brother who found that he enjoyed fixing teeth in an annual mission trip to a Central American country. He enjoyed it so much that he relearned his high school Spanish and just kept on learning. Now he can talk to these people in their own language when they come in for dental work. Of course, they can't answer him but you never can at a dentist's office. The point is simple: who is a more effective American, the guy learning his neighbor's language or the guy demanding that the neighbor learn his?
So don't confuse calculus with Spanish. They are as different as tacos and hot dogs.
Tlj-----so what you're...
Back to page topTlj-----so what you're saying is that if an American isn't tri or bilingual they sound like they have maybe a sixth grade education and speak in overloud voices? Where do come up with these thoughts? I really think you should spend some time living in Texas,Ariz. or lest say southern Ca. where much of the population is Mexican and they don't speak English and really don't want to because our gov. has made it too easy for them to have all but give nothing in return. I also think you should tell the American citizens that live there that this really is the thing to do so you can be proud to have them for a brother.
Now don't get your knickers...
Back to page topNow don't get your knickers in a bunch professor, but,
Is there a professor in Mexico who asks his students on the 4Th of July if any of them took English, only to be disappointed that most of them did, but since they have had little occasion to utilize it they have forgotten it? When it comes to worldwide tongues I can think of a few reason's why it has been more important for smaller countries or regions to have more of an emphasis if not a need to become more familiar with the English language than we of theirs. I have attended more than one Cinco De Mayo celebration in St. Paul where there is a large population of people form the Mexican motherland and was surprised at how few could have a conversation in understandable English. And funny, but they actually reside here.
I think you are making my...
Back to page topI think you are making my point by disagreeing with it. Although I don't mean for this to become the next monthlong dialogue, I made the point that Americans drop the ball when it comes to languages. I remember visiting a friend who was a captain-level military officer stationed in Germany for three years. He "lived on the economy" which meant he rented in the area of Heidelberg. We were in a restaurant and he had to ask for a telephone and had to ask me how to say telephone in German -- after three years. This is the side of America that makes a bad impression -- the cultural pride or laziness. And the way your go on about Mexicans in America who refuse to learn English. They are just trying to show that they are hardheaded enough about learning other people's languages to be proud Americans. It's an old tradition.
Well your friend could have...
Back to page topWell your friend could have just said telephone as 99.9% of the Germans call a telephone a telephone or your friend could have said "fernsprecker" which is, of course, German for telephone and only the other 0.1% would have understood what he had wanted. In fact, some Germans will kind of laugh at you if you say "fernsprecker". I think things are changing everywhere and most "common" languages are evolving. English is evolving to the point that I can hardly understand it any more.
My point was that through...
Back to page topMy point was that through all of the courses I took in high school and college I haven't retained everything. The biology yes, some if the chemistry yes, the calculus no, economics no... I'll say it again if you don't regularily use a skill you loose it. It doesn't matter what it is a language, math... I'm posivtive there are students of yours that, as soon as the final exam was over, forgot what they learned. That isn't a knock on you it's just a fact that unless you use it you loose it.
More to the point of languages, when I was in high school we were given 3 choices. They were French, German, and Spanish. The first two are rather worthless given the current world ecomomy. It would have been more beneficial to have Chinese, Spanish, and Hindi. In anycase most American people have a tough enough time speaking english. U ppl no wat I mean? G2g ttyl.