International Falls Daily Journal - The future of health care. . . - Comments

roj2000, it was insensitive

norpole — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:35:35 -0500

roj2000, it was insensitive of me to be so crass, and i thank you for your understanding. I hope that together we can find ways to make our beloved int'l falls and indeed our america the best it can be. People like you who have stepped up to the plate and dedicated many years of service are truly the heroes we need to thank, so again, my friend, I am sorry and please have a wonderful day.(By the way, I asked the wife about Canada's health care system and she gave me the Bronx cheer, which is when you stick your tongue out and blow, so you were right, no answer from up north.)

Norpole, No apology needed

roj2000 — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:15:11 -0500

Norpole,

No apology needed (I thank you anyway). I just like to push people's buttons, to get them to respond, and sometimes I get carried away. I just wish more people in the Falls with computers and internat capability would join in these discussions. After all it is their health care, etc. . . . too that is being threatened. Everyone's input is needed for discssion. Not just people like me shooting off hot air. So everyone pass the word and invite them to join in the discussions. So Norpole, I still consider you my "internet" friend, even though we agree to disagree. Have a good day.

TLJ, So, you must listen to

roj2000 — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 07:48:43 -0500

TLJ,

So, you must listen to one of my favorite people, Michael Savage?
He like you appears to be very educated, but you two are at the oposite ends of the spectrum, I would guess!! But you gave a fair opinion of the "ad hom" talking heads. I guess I am so outspoken is because I refuse to "roll over" and give into every little whim dreamed up by the people I usually don't agree with (yes, some are liberals). I stopped listening to Rush quite a few years ago, he actually gets quite boring. And Michael Savage, is quite intertaining. Do I agree with every thing he says? Heck no!! But he (like you said) is very educated and actually comes up with some interesting ideas, buts also likes to rant and rave (like me) on others!! So call me a Michael Savage wannabe, that's OK. Actually a compliment I would say.

NORPOLE,

As for you. I was not threatening you!! Just because I say, don't you ever dare", you should not become paranoid that I will do harm to you or your family. Many people on these blogs have said to me, "don't you dare" or "how dare you". Did I grab a gun and go after them?? Calm down. I am only throwing verbal barbs your way. And I wouldn't consider myself a "bigot", even though Webster might try to define me as one, since I am "fanatically devoted" to my polital party. But as I have said before, nominate someone like Joe Biden and I will race you to the voting booth. But I think we "ALL" should get back to where this blog started (by you), and that is funding health care. I don't think you or I have any magical wands we can wave to fix it. And we surely have differing opinions on how any money alloted should be allocated. I think if the top 1% rolled their money back, and everyone who works contributed their fair share into the system, it would help. But the key issue is to get the healh care costs down. What (in your opinion) is driving them up so much, and causing these high premiums? I know I don't have all the answers. And I don't trust ANY politician to have them!!

I owe roj2000 a deep

norpole — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 07:41:03 -0500

I owe roj2000 a deep apology. He is right after all, and really the future of health care is in one's own hands and care. I apologize for being so rude and dismissive and I hope that we can continue to bring topics up and agree to disagree in the future. Again, I am sorry for my offensive and out of hand comments to this fine man who served our country for many years and with distinction. I know that he wishes to make things better just as we all do.

Humor, even abusive humor,

Thomas L. Johnson — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 22:39:08 -0500

Humor, even abusive humor, always gets better ratings than cold, clear logic. You lucky folks in the Falls probably don't have to listen to Michael Savage [nomen est omen] doing what he does best ["red-diaper doper baby" is his slam against baby boomers], insulting anyone he doesn't agree with. One of the most educated people on talk radio, Savage is the poster child for a style of rhetoric called ad hominem abusive. It is easy to do -- abuse your opponent rather than hold a civil discussion about the merits of their ideas. On the left, Al Franken, who wants to be our senator, is just okay at it. Call Rush Limbaugh a big, fat idiot and you don't need to have an educated idea in your head. And you probably don't. One problem with a style that is totally ad hominem abusive is that it is an intellectual dead end -- about as productive as torturing small animals. The other is that it makes grown men cry -- or even worse, retaliate. In the tiny world of the blog, that is not a big deal, but let's hope we don't start electing them to public office. Powerless, they just ******; in power, they become demagogues.
Good night International Falls.

You used the one word that

norpole — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:50:13 -0500

You used the one word that my wife and I never like to have said about us, and was "dare". Your service to our country was a great thing, and thank you for that, but just as much as anyone else, the crude terms you seemed to think are funny are really just bigotry. Things like that won't help those in need of healthcare in the ever growing America. I dare you to stop being a narrow minded jerk like George Bush. He is the absolute worst president ever and a big reason why our national debt is rising and more people are literally dying in our country because he doesn't give a hoot. He is your president, fine, you keep him and his pop up book library that will be his legacy after eight years of running down the very country you defended with your service. His only idea was to divert funds, lose national secrets and deny millions of Americans the right to live the life they hoped they would have. John Edwards told the AFL-CIO convention that if the top 1% of earners had their taxes rolled back, then $190 billion dollars would fund a form of national or universal health care. You really don't want older people and those less fortunate to have some kind of health care? You want to cull the herd so to speak? Republicans, since Tricky ******y, have absolutely ruined our country with bullying and terrorizing tactics. They have taken the right away to strike, to get a better wage, to have a safer job, to force the employer to provide the state of the art health care that the shareholders have. One last thing, don't EVER threaten me and if you do, pack a lunch!

norpole, WOW!!!! I thought

roj2000 — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 20:39:05 -0500

norpole,

WOW!!!! I thought I was losing my touch, but you proved that I still have it. I'm sorry I offended you with me comments on Hillary, but I guess you think it is alright when people in the good old USA call President Bush, names like Hitler, a killer, etc.... ?? I have no problem with the "pez dispensers", as long as a) they pay for their "own" medical costs, or b) have the guts to go after the sperm donors, and have them pay for the medical and raising of the child. You have my word on that. You say I come up with off the wall ideas to shoot down some legimate ideas. Well, when was one presented on here? Other than more taxes and the same old handouts. I do not pretend to know it all, but there have been some very smart people who have written on here, who appear to know how to research these ideas, and I sure would like to hear their prescriptions for health care cost reform. Are you offended because some of what I said applies to you?? And don't you dare compare the heathcare I earned from servining 21 and a half years in the military, to that of the people living on welfare because they just want to sit back and let the guvment serve them. I spent over five years of my life under water in submarines, protecting this great country, and believe it or not, our missles were protecting Canada also. So I believe I paid into the health care system in more ways than one!!!! You are right in the fact that many Americans are forced into bankruptcy because of medical bills. I think it is one of the leading causes of filing for bankruptcy. But I have also seen people file for medical bankruptcy, when they were not bankrupt. The husband and wife were bringing in $34.00/hr, but just decided they didn't want to pay the 47K in medical bills, etc. . . . So who paid for those costs? You and me did. So norpole, that is how I as a proud American and Republican see the world tonight. I could go on and on, but you get my drift!! But don't you EVER dare put down again, my service to my country and the few benifits that came from being away from my country, family, and life in general.

I started this blog looking

norpole — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 19:45:41 -0500

I started this blog looking for answers to the national health care crisis. So far, I have learned that anything from the Democrats, and somehow Sen. Clinton has been demonized beyond belief, is not agreeable to people like roj2000. He is waiting for my response about my wife's country's system. Is it perfect? No, but when my stepdaughter suffered a severe heart attack at age 23, she didn't owe a dime. Can't say that here, can you? Millions of people in America go bankrupt and are forced to homelessness because they can't afford to pay their medical bills. Roj2000, after he is done making fun of women who have babies (pez dispensers) and gays (Ellen Degenerate), and people who have a very hard life (deadbeats bumming drinks from the Border Bar), says we must all pay our own way by being proud Americans, preferably as Republicans, and if we can't pay, then we don't deserve health care, and if that happens, then too bad for you. Compassion is not a part of roj2000's plan. The world is one giant submarine and we all have to tough it out or it is too bad for you. We can call anybody anything we want, and we can do so with impunity because he has lifetime health care via the United States government (not to be confused with guvment cheese, which is apparently good enough for a woman with a small child). When real people with real ideas have the courage to come up with solutions to provide coverage, then people like roj2000 will come up with some off the wall argument that does nothing to solve the problem at all and usually slanders more Americans. You see, those pez dispensers and deadbeats are Americans, just like you. They deserve the same rights, the same benefits and the same response from their government as you do. Maybe that is why Canadians live longer because they realized that by working together the country could grow and blossom. We don't work together with anyone in America. We love to fight with each other and we always have a reason to not have something before we even listen to all sides.

Fallser4life, Thanks for

roj2000 — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 09:53:52 -0500

Fallser4life,

Thanks for the excellent comments!! Finally someone thinks like me. I am still waiting for people like NORPOLE to let us know what his wife thinks of the Canadian health care system. Is that the system that Hillary and the Democrats are promising us?? The bottom line is that we need to get the health care costs down. One way is for ALL Americans to start paying their own way. This includes the Pez Dispensers, and deadbeats. I don't care if they make minumun wage, they should be putting their fair share back into the system. Many cities, including the one I live in and I-Falls, are full of these welfare for life people, who need to get off their butts and work and help pay for some of these benefits. THEY are draining the system. They account for some of the highest payouts in services rendered, but don't pay a dime into it. That costs then have to be passed on to us, who work and have to pay high premiums. So to the Liberals, what system do you have to offer, other than more welfare and freebies?? I refuse to pay more taxes, so that the deadbeats can get even more guvment cheese. I want someone to present an alternative plan, that makes sense, and makes everyone accountable for paying into it. Not just us hard workers.

On the healthcare aspect, I

Fallser4life — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 08:07:46 -0500

On the healthcare aspect, I am PROUD TO BE AMERICAN. Just wish it was affordable. I have family in Canada that are on a waiting list a mile long. If you get sick in the USA, at least you can go to the doctor that day or the next day and not have to wait until you're better or Strep Throat ends up in the Rheumatic Fever stage?

I don't understand how these "Pez Dispensers" get free healthcare or why the state can't make us all pay and give us a break. I pay nearly $300/month for family coverage and women brag about getting free health care and are in the working population working part-time living with their Boise Employee "boyfriend" collecting child-support in excess of $800, not to mention foodstamps? Do these women know how to work the system as they only work limited hours?

OK, I'm open to hearing

roj2000 — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 09:54:30 -0500

OK, I'm open to hearing everyone's suggestions and proposals on how we can run and pay for such a program, without it being just another welfare handout. I left the Falls when I was 18 and joined the Military and had a very successful career. One reason I joined was because they promised me free health care for life. So far it has been pretty good. I have to pay some deductibles, but I also have insurance through my wife which off sets some of those deductibles. Because I don't want to have use only the Doctors the Military says I have to, I opt for her insurance also, which allows me pick any provider, etc I want. Once I turn 65, the Military pick up any costs that Medicare doesn't. So thats what I've done to ensure I'm covered. No food stamps in this house. So I wonder what other people are doing? I know people here in SC are paying out their nose each paycheck for insurance. I know this ALL can't be President Bush's fault. Yes, I agree that a young couple who are both working and trying to make a decent living and lifestyle for their family, should not have to pay hundreds of dollars for insurance each month. So what is the solution for these hard working individuals. I'm not worried about those bums who are laying around and getting free guvment cheese, etc. They have free healthcare and who knows what else, provided by Uncle Sugar. They use the same Doctors and Hospitals I do, and don't pay a dime. But some families are content with having generations live off the system. As for the puritan work ethic here in the good ole USA? What's wrong with a little hard work?? I thought we were supposed to work to pay for free food and healthcare for the ones who want to sit on their tails! So, again, please tell me how we can improve the system and get the "working class" health care premiums down. These "other" countries health care programs can't be that great. Any time you have everyone getting an almost freebie, the lines will be long, with long waits for prodecures, etc.... I wish NORPOLE would tell us what his wife thinks of the wonderful health care system in Canada. My relative there, tell me nothing but horror stories.

I am hoping to retire

norpole — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:56:35 -0500

I am hoping to retire someday just like my dad did and live a full life of fishing and puttering around the house. But the way things are now, I can't and I won't be able to. Dad paid $11.00 a month for his health insurance. I currently pay over $200 a month and I have a ways to go to retire. I have heard that it will be $1600 a month for retirees. Will working and saving be enough to meet that bill? Probably not. So I have to work longer, with less assurance that the years I put in will pay off for me. In the place I work, I am at risk of industrial hazards and chemicals and I already have a liver that is damaged due to environmental causes. I am like a lot of people, in a hard place with no help to make an informed decision. National health care, an American model, may be the answer to offset this horrible burden. It really doesn't matter if it is Hillary who does this or John McCain or Rudy or Edwards or anyone else. I am lucky that I do have health insurance now. I am blessed that my disabled son will always be covered from the federal mandate to protect those not able to cover that cost. But no one, not the richest among us, would want to be facing a giant health insurance bill every month, and yet we are here in this forum bickering about national health care. You want to know why other countries have longer life spans than ours? They are not burdened with the puritan work ethic that we have. Life is life to them, not work is life like we have here. They stop and smell the roses, they enjoy the days of life they have and they protect their futures by honoring their elders. If we do that in America, then perhaps the future of America will grow instead of the downward spiral we now face.

TLJ, Show's you how informed

roj2000 — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:23:25 -0500

TLJ,

Show's you how informed I am. I honestly thought the Canadians didn't pay anything into the health care system. I thought it was paid for by "high taxes". Many of my relatives live in Canada and that's what I understood them to be telling me. I just know that all I hear from them is complaints, such as being on long waiting lists for procedures, etc . . . . We pay so much for health care here because of the jacked up costs. My Doctors tell me that they keep getting less and less of a percentage from the Insurance companies. So what do they do, they jack up their prices in order to get a fair income. Some will say that the Doctors are over paid in this country, but I say hell no!! A basketball or hockey player get 10 times what my doctor gets. Anyone care to figure that one out for me. My doctor can save my life, but he gets one tenth of a ball players salary. I agree about the big shots at GM, etc.... They should give up just 1/2 of their bonuses and it would pay for the workers health insurance. Why can't we say McJobs anymore? I was in MickeyDees recently, and the workers looked like McSlobs. But they all were Manager trainees. I don't how to explain the longer life span in Canada. Maybe their stop signs are better placed than in the Falls.

I hear people coming down on

Thomas L. Johnson — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:27:08 -0500

I hear people coming down on both sides of the health-care issue and it tells me that this is another issue where ideologues have created knee jerk reactions that reality demonstrates are likely false. Like the idea, for instance, that a healthcare system like Canada's or Sweden's will bankrupt us. According to that notoriously liberal source, the CIA World Factbook, Americans pay $5,274 per year for healthcare [the most in the world]; Canadians pay a hefty $2931 while the Swedes pay $2512. Life expectancy is the exact reverse -- we live a comfortable 77.85 years, the Canadians go 80.22 while the Swedes are pushing 81. I know -- most of the wags are thinking what that 80 years in Canada seems even longer. But the same difference shows up in infant mortality -- 6.50 USA, 4.75 Canada, 2.43/100,000 Sweden.
Whatever we seem to be getting with our current set-up, it doesn't seem like a very good deal.

And the idea that our kids will all get decent jobs and pay their own healthcare? Those liberal executives of General Motors are predicting that the amount they spend on healthcare has made them uncompetitive with those countries like Germany that have tax-supported healthcare systems. So the jobs in manufacturing are moving away, being replaced by 30 hour-per-week service industry jobs. [Can't say McJobs anymore].

Those are my thoughts on a rainy Friday afternoon.

You must have got me up-set,

GOPHER60 — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:54:10 -0500

You must have got me up-set, or it's this crappy weather, or my bunions are bothering me or something out of the ordinary becuase i am referring to you as rog2000 now...i must have been thinking (right on gopher or something). i will get it straight from now on friend...

The future of health care. . .

norpole — Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:15:24 -0500

As many of us reach the age of retirement, we are faced with the horrible burden of acquiring or keeping health insurance.